California CCW - concealed carry forum

I haven't said much in the other thread but personally I'm not comfortable funding or joining any organization that I can't completely agree with, and the NRA has enough issues that I don't support that I can't justify joining. That said, it's things like this which do nothing to change my mind and build more walls than they help tear down. Anyone who is an NRA member want to try and explain why something like this is a good idea on any front?

http://www.wonkette.com/politics/nra/nras-secret-graphic-novel-revealed-223889.php

I'm not quoting it because the images there are just as important. Anyone?

Update, Over on BoingBoing, Xeni has linked to the story which is going to draw a lot more attention to it. As some of you know Xeni is an LA Resident, gun owner and pro-CCW. She writes:

Wonkette has published sneak peek scans from a new "graphic novel" produced by the NRA to promote membership.

It's full of laff-worthy fearmongering, but the illustrations are great. Above: With their mutant critter hordes of lobsters, islamofascist deer, and TNT-totin' owls, razor-eschewing hippie chicks who've escaped from R. Crumb comix are coming to burn down your white suburban home. And ye shall know them by the tracks of their Birkenstocks.

...

For the record, I'm a firm supporter of second amendment rights. But I'm also fond of tofu and terror-chickens.

Sean, I am still trying to digest your post. I am more offended by the narration than the pictures. I would like to the "novel"

Well, at the risk of insulting anyone on the board (please understand that this is just me, don’t take anything as a personal attack), I have belonged or do belong to many organizations whose stands I don’t 100% completely agree with.

First, my family. Yep, I don’t subscribe to many of the cockamamie ideas that some of them come up with. Second, the Catholic Church; don’t even get me started there! Third, my local community; I belong, support, raise money for, participate in elections, I consider myself a full fledge member. Of course we can go on about political organizations at length, but you get the idea. Boy Scouts, there is a big one. We are all Scouts all the time at my house. Why? Because the program is a good one. Do I buy in to their entire social political philosophy? No. Does that drive me nuts? Yes, but I believe that you help fix broken things by being involved. Can I fix BSA? Not alone, but a lot of me can help. NRA, I really like the effort they put into training curriculums and materials. Do I agree with all of their materials? No.

My personal bent is that I can support an organization that on balance provides more good than evil; to a point. Let’s just say that the way the new ‘Publication’ is characterized on the web looks bad, but then I don’t believe much of what I see on the web until I personally verify it. Too many people with their own agendas that have a propensity to exaggerate.

YMMV!

Happy Holidays everyone!

ptc3 wrote:

Sean, I am still trying to digest your post. I am more offended by the narration than the pictures. I would like to the "novel"

I actually think the artwork is pretty fantastic. I'd like a poster of some of those images.

DVSmith wrote:

Well, at the risk of insulting anyone on the board (please understand that this is just me, don’t take anything as a personal attack), I have belonged or do belong to many organizations whose stands I don’t 100% completely agree with.

First, my family. Yep, I don’t subscribe to many of the cockamamie ideas that some of them come up with. Second, the Catholic Church; don’t even get me started there! Third, my local community; I belong, support, raise money for, participate in elections, I consider myself a full fledge member. Of course we can go on about political organizations at length, but you get the idea. Boy Scouts, there is a big one. We are all Scouts all the time at my house. Why? Because the program is a good one. Do I buy in to their entire social political philosophy? No. Does that drive me nuts? Yes, but I believe that you help fix broken things by being involved. Can I fix BSA? Not alone, but a lot of me can help. NRA, I really like the effort they put into training curriculums and materials. Do I agree with all of their materials? No.

My personal bent is that I can support an organization that on balance provides more good than evil; to a point. Let’s just say that the way the new ‘Publication’ is characterized on the web looks bad, but then I don’t believe much of what I see on the web until I personally verify it. Too many people with their own agendas that have a propensity to exaggerate.

YMMV!

Happy Holidays everyone!

Well Written and excellent post

You just like the girl because she has a tatoo.

Sean please see my reply to your post in the other NRA thread. I think it applies directly here as well.

http://californiaccw.org/posts/list/60/2573.page

Great reply Strawberry.

That website is repulsive. The fallacy here is that there is any connection between these vile, rascist views and the NRA. Blacks in the old south and Korean store owners in LA both protected their families and livlihoods with firearms whose ownership is supported by the NRA.

I don't think this represents NRA as I understand it or have seen it. This is like a comic book, and I think NRA is a little smarter than that.

Obviously there are people within NRA membership who this might appeal to. As Strawberry says, it is repulsive and brings out a bunch of pet hates that are why we have 2A, so that this kind of stuff can be met with self-defense, as need be.

I don't agree 100% with anybody about everything. What a sterile world it would be.

Do I think George Soros, Hillary and others have agendas inimical to our personal freedoms, including RKBA? No bloody question about that. All Jews then are bad? Oh, pleezze....

How do we know in fact this tripe is authored by NRA? Who within NRA? La Pierre? An intense man, but not a comic book writer, I don't think. This is such a travesty of NRA stereotypes (in the minds of some leftists) I have a little trouble NRA would be dumb enough to let it happen.

The net is full of hoaxes. Why not this one?

Read Caleb Carr's "Killing Time" sometime, less for the plot line as much as for an image of a society unable to think critically about anything produced on the internet.

I think some people are there already.

G+C

PS: Being a good victim applies to eating hoaxes without a thought or burp.

Sean,

Is the fact that the NRA supports hunting the main reason for not supporting their cause? If it is, I understand and respect your opininion because of your vegan beliefs. I better not catch you with anything leather.

(CTAC)

I still have to look at the big picture and support the organization that is protecting my 2nd amendment rights. That does not mean by any means neccesary. The only person who is racist is the one who interpeted the artwork.

ptc3 wrote:

Is the fact that the NRA supports hunting the main reason for not supporting their cause? If it is, I understand and respect your opininion because of your vegan beliefs.

There are many reasons, but that is certainly a core aspect of that. I would never tell someone they couldn't hunt, but in the same breath I could never support hunting.

ptc3 wrote:

I better not catch you with anything leather. (CTAC)

You won't. And Chooch can back me up on that, I had replacement parts created for a CTAC before I got one.

Sean, I think if you take your position on hunting to its extent, then any gun or ammo you purchase supports individuals and businesses who support hunting--namely most firearm manufacturers. They make a substantial portion of their income from hunters, and most contribute to hunting related causes.

To me, supporting the NRA is no different.

Sticking to your beliefs is a great thing. But at the end of the day if the NRA helps preserve the rights of all gun owners, don't we all win by being able to choose how we use those guns? Or not use them?

ghschirtz wrote:

I don't think this represents NRA as I understand it or have seen it. This is like a comic book, and I think NRA is a little smarter than that.

Obviously there are people within NRA membership who this might appeal to. As Strawberry says, it is repulsive and brings out a bunch of pet hates that are why we have 2A, so that this kind of stuff can be met with self-defense, as need be.

I don't agree 100% with anybody about everything. What a sterile world it would be.

Do I think George Soros, Hillary and others have agendas inimical to our personal freedoms, including RKBA? No bloody question about that. All Jews then are bad? Oh, pleezze....

How do we know in fact this tripe is authored by NRA? Who within NRA? La Pierre? An intense man, but not a comic book writer, I don't think. This is such a travesty of NRA stereotypes (in the minds of some leftists) I have a little trouble NRA would be dumb enough to let it happen.

The net is full of hoaxes. Why not this one?

Read Caleb Carr's "Killing Time" sometime, less for the plot line as much as for an image of a society unable to think critically about anything produced on the internet.

I think some people are there already.

G+C

PS: Being a good victim applies to eating hoaxes without a thought or burp.

your right I would not think that the NRA woul stoop this low if they did shame shame and I will be the first to cacel my membership

seanbonner wrote:

I haven't said much in the other thread but personally I'm not comfortable funding or joining any organization that I can't completely agree with, and the NRA has enough issues that I don't support that I can't justify joining. That said, it's things like this which do nothing to change my mind and build more walls than they help tear down. Anyone who is an NRA member want to try and explain why something like this is a good idea on any front?

http://www.wonkette.com/politics/nra/nras-secret-graphic-novel-revealed-223889.php

I'm not quoting it because the images there are just as important. Anyone?

Sean, did you fall off the truck yesterday? (lol...your politics are showing

)

The same bill of rights that allows even protects the full political spectrum covers this drivel. Awesome artwork though.

Guns And Sushi wrote:

Sean, I think if you take your position on hunting to its extent, then any gun or ammo you purchase supports individuals and businesses who support hunting--namely most firearm manufacturers. They make a substantial portion of their income from hunters, and most contribute to hunting related causes.

To me, supporting the NRA is no different.

Sticking to your beliefs is a great thing. But at the end of the day if the NRA helps preserve the rights of all gun owners, don't we all win by being able to choose how we use those guns? Or not use them?

And if that was the *only* issue I'd agree with you, but as I said it's only part (a big part) of it. As I've mentioned, I think they mess up on the PR all the time and alienate people who would otherwise be friends. I know I've personally had to spend a lot of time an effort correcting viewpoints people got from the NRA which are not accurate. On that point it's the same reason I don't support and wouldn't give any money to PETA - While I agree with *some* of their standpoints I think they approach things all wrong and make enemies out of people who otherwise wouldn't be.

seanbonner wrote:

Guns And Sushi wrote:

Sean, I think if you take your position on hunting to its extent, then any gun or ammo you purchase supports individuals and businesses who support hunting--namely most firearm manufacturers. They make a substantial portion of their income from hunters, and most contribute to hunting related causes.

To me, supporting the NRA is no different.

Sticking to your beliefs is a great thing. But at the end of the day if the NRA helps preserve the rights of all gun owners, don't we all win by being able to choose how we use those guns? Or not use them?

And if that was the *only* issue I'd agree with you, but as I said it's only part (a big part) of it. As I've mentioned, I think they mess up on the PR all the time and alienate people who would otherwise be friends. I know I've personally had to spend a lot of time an effort correcting viewpoints people got from the NRA which are not accurate. On that point it's the same reason I don't support and wouldn't give any money to PETA - While I agree with *some* of their standpoints I think they approach things all wrong and make enemies out of people who otherwise wouldn't be.

The NRA has definitely blown it on the PR front many times.

BTW, I fully support People Eating Tasty Animals.

Lee F. Smith wrote:

Sean, did you fall off the truck yesterday? (lol...your politics are showing )

The same bill of rights that allows even protects the full political spectrum covers this drivel. Awesome artwork though.

I don't hide my politics, nor do I think the NRA or whoever wrote this comic book shouldn't be allowed to express those views. I'm asking how anyone in the NRA thinks that something like that helps their cause. I'm of the opinion that convincing people of the merits of your argument is a better way to make allies, using stereotypes to build walls only pushes people away.

Guns And Sushi wrote:

BTW, I fully support People Eating Tasty Animals.

I know, and I fully support your right to support People Eating Tasty Animals. Even if I don't.