Latest posts for the topic "Kicking off the Santa Clara forum..."

Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

kbyrd — GMT

Well, someone had to. Sure, it's Santa Clara. We'll be one of the last to get shall-issue CCW if we go county by county. But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't help everyone else.

Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Admin — GMT

kbyrd wrote:

Well, someone had to. Sure, it's Santa Clara. We'll be one of the last to get shall-issue CCW if we go county by county. But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't help everyone else.

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for joining us. Yup, Santa Clara right now is no-issue, and it will be among the last to go shall-issue, unless someone sues them into the ground (hint hint). Sheriff Laurie Smith http://www.sccgov.org/portal/site/sheriff/ Here are the cities in SClara county: Campbell Cupertino Gilroy Los Altos Los Altos Hills Los Gatos Milpitas Monte Sereno Morgan Hill Mountain View Palo Alto San Jose Santa Clara Saratoga Sunnyvale Some have their own PDs, and some are "contract" cities which use the sheriff's dept as their PD. A good way to start would be to find out who the police chiefs there are, contact them IN WRITING and ask for their WRITTEN CCW policies and records of all approved and denied applications in the past three years. That's the best way to start the fight there. It's quite possible that a police chief in Santa Clara County could start issuing. Gilroy is a rural kind of place, seems like most of the other nearly-shall-issue areas of California. DON'T GIVE UP! Do some digging and let them all know that there's going to be a fight.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Lonnie Wilson — GMT

I have sent an email to the leader of the Records Division at Gilroy PD (which usually handles CCW permits). I should be getting a response tommorow. The best thing to happen in this situation would be that they issue their own permits, and not have declared G.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

FreedomIsNotFree — GMT

I'm in San Jose and ready to get started.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Python2 — GMT

Lonnie Wilson wrote:

I have sent an email to the leader of the Records Division at Gilroy PD (which usually handles CCW permits). I should be getting a response tommorow. The best thing to happen in this situation would be that they issue their own permits, and not have declared G.

Wanna bet? I have been waiting for over a month now. Still "no response". I am in the Bay Area, San Mateo County to be exact, sheriff in my area make you start from your local chief (passing the buck I would think)then to the sheriff for further processing. If you want to help build a case collectively statewide, Keep paper trail. Your correspondence should all be handled certified mail with return receipt. I am keeping my own paper trail.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Lonnie Wilson — GMT

Just an FYI for everyone: I do not currently have a residence in California. I'm just trying to help.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Python2 — GMT

Lonnie Wilson wrote:

Just an FYI for everyone: I do not currently have a residence in California. I'm just trying to help.

Thanks for trying anyway. We gun owners have a long road to hike.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Lonnie Wilson — GMT

I think Gilroy is being naughty. the head of the records division states that the application must be filed with his division, but that "Good cause" is up to the Chief of Police and "his own policies". How much you wanna bet that he doesn't have his policies posted? Ok, so what now?

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Python2 — GMT

Lonnie Wilson wrote:

I think Gilroy is being naughty. the head of the records division states that the application must be filed with his division, but that "Good cause" is up to the Chief of Police and "his own policies". How much you wanna bet that he doesn't have his policies posted? Ok, so what now?

Wow!!!!, sounds like my case. Sheriff advised applicant to go to PC to start the process, if PC approves, forward file to Sheriff for further processing and final approval. Web check of my PC did not show Policy but that doesnt mean he doesnt have one. I suspect between Sheriff and PC, they have an MOU.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

furryrabbit — GMT

Does anyone know where to start with SJPD. I sent just a general e-mail and recieved no reply. Since I'm unable to make calls during the day for a few months I'm hoping to find some info on the process here.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Jim March — GMT

Attorney Don Kilmer is based down there and has a very low opinion of not only that agency, but the courts in Santa Clara county and the county lawyers. He doesn't want to deal with any lawsuit in that county involving even clear-cut matters like public records access. Per Don, there's a clear-cut pattern whereby the county's attorneys will flood a solo-practitioner attorney with paperwork - meaningless requests for document production, motions for miles, anything they can do to literally drive his practice into the ground. A proper court would put a stop to that. The SC County courts don't. The only lawsuit that makes sense in that county would be a full-on discrimination suit involving a minority plaintiff. Even then, SC isn't the best target because the sheriff's practices aren't as clear-cut racially discriminatory as other counties. The "primo" targets are Contra Costa, Sacramento and LA. A case could also be made in any county with a high Latino population and an Hispanic plaintiff.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Jim March — GMT

Oh yeah. The funniest piece of idiocy out of Sheriff Smith is that her copy of the state-standard CCW form is altered. It instructs the applicant to fill out "section seven" themselves. Yet if you do a public records inquiry for "good cause" data, she'll tell you it falls under the "police investigator's notes" gambit created by doctoring the forms in 1999. See also: http://californiaccw.org/posts/list/198.page No, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Pat Morrissey — GMT

I see a lot of chatter about my town, Gilroy. I've been following CCW policy here for quite a long time now. The following article in the Gilroy Dispatch might be of interest: http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/contentview.asp?c=146872 It's about 17 months old, but things move kind of slowly out here in rural America. It's probably still pretty accurate.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Admin — GMT

Pat, here is your mission, should you choose to accept it: 1. Contact the reporter who did that story. Invite him to come take a look at this website and do a follow-up story, "18 months later" kind of thing. 2. Start your application in Gilroy. Ask GPD for the application. Get help from us here to help you fill it out and do your cause statement. Apply. Document all your contacts with GPD: who you spoke with, what they said, when, etc. Also get their written CCW policy. They are required to have one. Once you get it please let us know so we can post it here. Depending on how your application goes, there are a variety of next steps. Their reaction could range from denying you an app to accepting your app and denying your CCW to issuing you. (Btw: It sounds like they issued a permit to an instructor. You can be an instructor, too. Take the NRA certified instructor course.)

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Dieter3 — GMT

Newbie standing by in Santa Clara..... 8)

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Python2 — GMT

Dieter3 wrote:

Newbie standing by in Santa Clara..... 8)

You do not have to standby Newbie? Are you a member of the GS2AC (Golden State 2nd Amendment Council)? They have a meeting at Harry's Hofbrau in 390 Saratoga Ave, SJ this Thursday, No host dinner. You can help our cause by bringing a bunch of copies of "The facts on Carrying a Concealed Handgun in California" Print it from CaliforniaCCW archives. I am not from Santa Clara but I have attended one of their meetings.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Glock22Fan — GMT

Admin wrote:

. . . Take the NRA certified instructor course. . . .

I've thought about doing this, just for fun as I don't anticipate making even a part-time career out of it. However, I looked at the NRA.org website and found very little in the way of detail. Does anyone know what's involved? I'm an experienced teacher, been around guns for nearly 50 years, but I'm not a brilliant shot (don't get enough practise :( )

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Dieter3 — GMT

Python2 wrote:

Dieter3 wrote:

Newbie standing by in Santa Clara..... 8)
You do not have to standby Newbie? Are you a member of the GS2AC (Golden State 2nd Amendment Council)? They have a meeting at Harry's Hofbrau in 390 Saratoga Ave, SJ this Thursday, No host dinner. You can help our cause by bringing a bunch of copies of "The facts on Carrying a Concealed Handgun in California" Print it from CaliforniaCCW archives. I am not from Santa Clara but I have attended one of their meetings.

Thanks Python! I was unaware of this group, and I do know Harry's, really close actually. Curses though, we've got out of town company coming in!! I will check them out and find out about the next, next meeting. No longer standing by!!! :mrgreen:

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Pat Morrissey — GMT

Glock22Fan wrote:

Does anyone know what's involved?

NRA website isn't the easiest to drill into, but with some diligent work work you'll find: http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/find.asp?State=CA&Type=IT There are some other NRA Training Counselors in the area who aren't listed there. You can call NRA Training for more help. It's possible to get the general "instructor-specific" parts of the course bundled with more than one discipline. E.g., I took Instructor Training, Home Firearm Safety, Basic Pistol and Personal Protection all at once (think it was like two weekends for the whole thing?). Now I'm OK to teach any of the three classes.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

trlaye — GMT

Gilroy Issues Had a CCW there at one time but then COP didn't want to renew it because he didn't want to accept the "political liability". It was discresionary as he was willing to accept liability for others that were more active politically. Don't live there now. Political Activity Silicon Valley NRA Members Councils Meets the last Tuesday of each month at Reed's Indoor Range in Santa Clara on Duane Ave (old Nationa range). Check out the loaded Springfield w/.22 caliber conversion kit they have as a special drawing at Reed's Sporting Goods annual sale next weekend. South Valley NRA Members Council meets the first Wednesday of the month for those of you in that area. Additional members council info can be found at: http://nramemberscouncils.com/mc/directory/ Glock22Fan Check out BayProfs.org for assistance in learning to teach and then applying/improving that knowledge for going out and teaching on your own. City of Santa Clara CCW policy is COP will only issue to Reserves. Members of the general public who wish to obtain a concealed weapons permit will be directed to the Santa Clara Count Sheriff's Office. SCPD General Orders available via a PRAR or maybe for asking. My nickel. Tom

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

kbyrd — GMT

Glock22Fan wrote:

Admin wrote:

. . . Take the NRA certified instructor course. . . .
Does anyone know what's involved?

Yes, I just took the Pistol Instructor's course the last weekend with BIll Tidwell. Great class. He's one of the NRA training counselors (instructors that teach new instructors) in this area. Check out www.train2besafe.com. Bill doesn't actually certifiy you, he teaches the class (2 days, 10hr+ each day) and administers the tests, then you send your application to the NRA and they issue the certification. PM me if you need more info.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

trlaye — GMT

Furry Rabbit, The SJPD will ask you to come in and pick up a CCW app at the Permits front desk if you can get the right person to speak with you. My last contact was Lt. Fowler at 408-277-4475. This was in 2003 so the name has probably changed but perhaps not the number. He was kind enough to tell me to come in and pick up the app but unless I could clearly articulate my need that one was unlikely to be issued. The app is the one that Jim March has on his page, so I'd suggest downloading his, filling it out and submitting it via certified mail to the current name. SJ has issued to LCAction folks who transport firearms I've heard so if you're a firearms instructor, NRA, etc. then perhaps that would be good cause. Tom

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Dieter3 — GMT

Anybody on the forum going to the GS2AC meeting tonight?? I am planning to attend.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Python2 — GMT

Dieter3 wrote:

Anybody on the forum going to the GS2AC meeting tonight?? I am planning to attend.

I am thinking of going. Don Kilmer is the speaker. I believe he is a lawyer and somewhere I read about him saying suing sheriff and chief in the county would be tough and too much work. Dont know what that meant.

Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Duckwax — GMT

ok folks, Ive read about 25 pages in the last several hours. Im sure this has come up, but can't find it. It seems to me this whole cause is missing the point somewhere. I agree that a CCW permit and therefor the assumed carry would make me feel safer,..but what happens next? The authorized firearm carry would logically lead to the eventual perceived need and possible use of the firearm....No? That split second changes, and sometimes ends lives. Does the pursuit of this permit really prepare tha average citizen for the eventual consequences of this action? Have you , yourself ever drawn a weapon on someone? Ever been shot at ? This aint no squirrel we are looking at thru sights. Are we ready and able to accept the family memebers reaction, and impact if return fire misses us? I will never be heard to say this isnt a worthy cause, but the end result needs to be as carefully organized and as completely understood as the process to get there. Are there legel reps who will save your house, and savings when you respond with this rarest of public recourses? The idle banter link is great, the whole site has huge amounts of useful information on it, but I need to get some feedback on what happens at the logical conclusion of this process....there is only ONE reason to need a permit... are we ready for this?

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Admin — GMT

Hi Duckwax, First, welcome to the forum. Second, we do try to maintain high standards of post etiquette here. I hate to sound like a school teacher, but please do be careful about capitalization and formatting. Yes things are quite informal in the Idle Banter forum, but everywhere else, we try to keep a serious tone. And why do we do this? Because, exactly as you say, carrying a gun is a serious matter. Carrying it, without ever drawing it or using it, requires serious thought, maturity, training, and study of use-of-force ethics in a classroom setting. And if the gun ever gets used, many possibilities branch out, all of them bad. Our only hope at that point is that we end up with the least-bad option. That normally means tens of thousands of dollars of legal fees even in the case of a perfectly justified shooting. I don't have any figures but I would assume that 99% of the people with CCWs (other than LEOs perhaps) never draw their weapons in their entire lives (outside of training). Carrying a gun does NOT mean that gun will ever be drawn. I think of a gun like a motorcycle helmet. You hope you never ever have to use it, but you don't want to go without it either. The difference is that most motorcylists do have spills at some point in their riding; most gun owners never use a gun in a hostile situation. Again, welcome to the forum, and we hope you will join us in improving CCW in California. And to be specific:

The authorized firearm carry would logically lead to the eventual perceived need and possible use of the firearm....No?

No! The ONLY thing that leads to the need and use of a firearm is a reasonable fear of immediate great bodily injury, in a case where such injury could only be prevented by the use of lethal force. (Note that having or not having a firearm doesn't come up at all in this question!) All the terms in that sentence are actually technical terms with a precise legal meaning. I won't explain them in detail here. Why not? Because you really need to learn them in a formal classroom setting. You need to take a defensive firearms class in your area, one with at least several hours of classroom time dedicated to use of force ethics. That class will cover in detail the meaning of my sentence at the beginning of this paragraph.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

ccwinstructor — GMT

The mandated outlines throughout the state touch on it at best. Being involved and defending your life or the life of a love one is easier than the aftermath. Lt. Col. Dave Grossman (ret.) has a great 8 hour lecture on this subject. www.killogly.com

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

Duckwax — GMT

Thank you for the welcome, and the coaching on my posting duties. I will try not to disappoint you. I have been a licensed, reasonably trained and practiced hunter for some years. I use extreme caution with, and around all firearms. I am a NRA member. I register to vote, and have everyone in my household also registered to vote. I hope to remain a (fat, rich, spoiled) American as long as possible. I say that last (sentence) in jest, but with a wink at the consumerism of current American society. I realize there are millions of people on this earth who will never live as we do. I want our government to protect our Borders, Language, and Freedoms as promised in our Constitution. I beleive in the power of the Freedom to publicly express differing veiws peacefully, and in the legal process that offers all equal chance at justice. I thank you for allowing me to be a guest on your site.

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

WKC — GMT

Here is the link to CCWI's reference. http://www.killology.com/

ccwinstructor wrote:

The mandated outlines throughout the state touch on it at best. Being involved and defending your life or the life of a love one is easier than the aftermath. Lt. Col. Dave Grossman (ret.) has a great 8 hour lecture on this subject. www.killogly.com

Re:Kicking off the Santa Clara forum...

drick — GMT

Python2 wrote:

Lonnie Wilson wrote:

I think Gilroy is being naughty. the head of the records division states that the application must be filed with his division, but that "Good cause" is up to the Chief of Police and "his own policies". How much you wanna bet that he doesn't have his policies posted? Ok, so what now?
Wow!!!!, sounds like my case. Sheriff advised applicant to go to PC to start the process, if PC approves, forward file to Sheriff for further processing and final approval. Web check of my PC did not show Policy but that doesnt mean he doesnt have one. I suspect between Sheriff and PC, they have an MOU.

what ever happened with this? i know this post is 2 years old, but did the gilroy application ever get responded to?